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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL MINUTES WORKSHOP VOTING SESSION February 27, 2007 6:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor: I call the February Workshop Meeting of Simpsonville City Council to order. Ms. Bodkins would you call the Roll please.
Ms. Bodkins: Yes sir. Councilmember Bridges Here Councilmember Garrett Absent Councilmember Lawrence Here Councilmember Gecy Here Councilmember Zitricki Here Councilmember Larson Absent Mayor Waldrop Present
Mr. Garrett had called me last week and had said that he had a business meeting that had been scheduled and that he wasn’t going to be able to make it tonight. And I’ve just been told that Mr. Larson is in Columbia at the Hometown Connection meeting down there. So, they won’t be joining us tonight. Thank all of you for coming.
INVOCATION Mayor: Is there any one who would like to ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way. All right, Councilmember Zitricki would you ask blessings in your own personal way please.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor: Thank you. This is the portion of the meeting when we invite citizen comment. But we had no one to call and ask to be placed on the Agenda and had no one to sign up tonight is that correct.
Ms. Bodkins: No sir, that’s correct.
Mayor: Okay – we’ll move right on then.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Mayor: Next item is council comments. Anyone up here have anything they would like to say about anything. Mr. Zitricki
Mr. Zitricki: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mr. Hawes, we asked that we have some information today for the sewer expenditures.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir.
Mr. Zitricki: Were you able to gather that together for us.
Mr. Hawes: Yes I do. I can have Ms. Bodkins pass them out to you. I was actually going to hand them to you after the meeting but if you’d like them right now.
Mr. Zitricki: We’ll just keep them I appreciate that.
Mr. Hawes: You want them right now?
Mr. Zitricki: Yes
Mr. Hawes: Okay.
Mr. Zitricki: Another question is how is the street scape project progressing. It’s progressing slowly. Primarily because Duke Power had some issues with the three phase line. As a matter of fact our Public Works Director is going to be meeting with Duke Power tomorrow regarding, not just the street scape but also the gateway aspects coming into downtown where we’re talking about decorative lighting all the way from Fairview and W. Georgia Road. We want to make sure these two projects are tied together correctly so that they work smoothly and Duke Power is going to be working with us on that tomorrow. We also have an electrical consultant working with us aside from Duke Power. Separate from Duke Power who is looking at the situation with the underground utilities downtown.
Mr. Zitricki: Have any concerns been raised by the business owners down there in that area.
Mr. Hawes: No, not that we are aware of at this point.
Mr. Zitricki: Okay, good. Thank you.
Mr. Hawes: We believe they’re fully aware of what we’re doing and in support of it.
Mr. Zitricki: Okay, thank you. That’s all.
Mayor: Okay, anyone else. Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: I wanted to ask a question Mr. Hawes if you could help us with this – anybody that can – the schedule on Georgia Road with regard to that ramp that’s coming off and I mean that is – that is a killer. They either have to put a stop sign there or something but there is a nice yield sign but people ignore it.
Mr. Hawes: Very dangerous situation
Mr. Gecy: Do we have any authority for the City Police Department to kind of hang around there every now and then and watch people not yielding.
Mr. Hawes: If the Police of Chief determines that that is an unsafe design or traffic movement that could be addressed by a change to the lane structure – in other words a longer acceleration lane or leaving it the way it is but putting a stop sign he could certainly work with DOT to get the contractor out there to address that I would expect.
Mr. Gecy: Well Chief – that’s a very very dangerous situation. And uhm cars do not yield
Chief Reece: Yes sir Mr. Gecy, we have looked at that and have already been in contact with the highway department about that. The problem they’re running into is the – getting the asphalt down to finish that lane with the weather. And it’s got to be above a certain temperature and all that. But we are working on it with them.
Mr. Gecy: Okay. Another question about Frazier Engineering. I notice we’re putting a flow meter in Hunters Woods line and what’s all that about. That was a request by the City – we asked them to do that to get a clearer identification
Mr. Hawes: That was a request by the City. We asked them to do that to get a clearer identification of exactly where the flows are coming from on the commercial end versus the residential. Because previously the flow monitor was farther down the line so we asked that in this study that they please place it up where the commercial meets the residential.
Mr. Gecy: And what are you anticipating. What’s the purpose of – I know you want to know what the flow is but what are we looking at. How much potential is coming off the Arbors is that what we’re looking at or how much less is going to flow in – is there a straightforward
Mr. Hawes: I would say we’re looking for accurate information that we didn’t have previously and that will determine any actions in the future or will help determine any actions in the future.
Mr. Gecy: Is it still a concern that the Hunters Woods line that 8 inch line is running pretty full.
Mr. Hawes: It’s under constant evaluation.
Mr. Gecy: Because you know when I talked to them it was running about 5 inches in an 8 inch line. And another time they said it was running pretty full in the day.
Mr. Hawes: Right. There is certainly concern that they’re observing it and watching it very closely. Any time we have a situation such as what occurred there – whether by construction contractors, negligence or fault, regardless we want to watch and make sure that we’re on top of every aspect of that situation.
Mr. Gecy: Well also the seriousness of how much volume is going there if there is a back-up or even down the street – even on the other side of the street where people don’t have flow meters – if it’s going up it can go uphill, I mean if it backs up. Very concerned about that as well to look at options for that. I don’t want us to abandon the idea of a commercial sewer line perhaps, if it’s necessary. I mean I can appreciate having all the information. I was surprised to see them out there. I didn’t know that they were still doing that kind of thing, but it’s good to see that. Where is the work order look like with the Arbors, or is that not –
Mr. Hawes: That’s already underway.
Mr. Gecy: It’s underway – but has it been done yet – see it hasn’t been tied in yet
Mr. Hawes: Joe may be able to answer that better yet. I know it’s underway.
Mr. Gecy: Are we still waiting on these flow charts to really contract that.
Mr. Hawes: No. That was determined by City Council that you approved doing that and we bid it and it’s underway.
Mr. Gecy: Are you saying it’s already started.
Mr. Hawes: Yeah. Is it not Joe.
Mr. Carter: The actual construction hasn’t started yet. They needed some additional information before we let him start. We do have a contract. He is ready to go, but he hasn’t started yet. We put a flow monitor in that line as well to see what kind of flow was on it to get – we want to make sure that the pump in that pump station has the ability to pump it another 416 feet. So we had to get the head pressure off what’s coming off that pump station so we set a monitor there to check the head pressure to see what it was and then got the elevations on the other line before we was going to let him start. We don’t want him to turn it and then it not work – then we’d have a bigger mess. So that’s what we’re doing. So as soon as Frazier – he put a monitor in that line and as soon as he gives us the information on that – I think he took it out today – it’s been in there for a couple of weeks and we’ve got his elevation for him. As soon as he takes that we’ll know what we’ve got and then the contractor can start if everybody’s okay on it.
Mr. Hawes: Okay I stand corrected. I know we let the contractor but apparently he has not gotten out there yet.
Mr. Gecy: Back to the sewer – but now talking about the sewer money. Did you have any further information for us about the sewer fund and how much is in it and how much is there to go towards sewer projects in the City that you’re planning on – have you got a figure in your head. We know we have a $200,000 grant from the State
Mr. Hawes: That is correct and that is available right now.
Mr. Gecy: You know that coupled with – what do we have in the bank – in the sewer fund –
Mr. Hawes: I don’t have the specific number for you – what I have for you is the 2005 actuals, the 2006 actuals and the 2007 budgeted amounts. As far as the exact amount expended so far this year, I can certainly get to you.
Mr. Gecy: And then just briefly once again, is it our understanding that this is for only sewer upgrades or are we using this money for salaries and
Mr. Hawes: The sewer fund – the sewer fund is used for operations, maintenance, upkeep, rehab of the sewer, capital, operations, everything.
Mr. Gecy: I’m talking specifically about that extra money that was added to raise it to the $21050 So that additional money is coming in and shouldn’t be in the working capital of the sewer fund. That will be money that is extra that we agreed on as an extra tax to provide a cushion to start doing sewer upgrades. I think that’s what that was for.
Mr. Hawes: That money was to allow a revenue stream that would be sufficient to meet the requirements of the SSES plan that was identified and established in the consent order as well as the consulted study that we did that identified the SSES plan. It required that revenue structure. Therefore the rates were changed and the actual rate change occurred in November 2004 I believe and the City started receiving actual monies in early 2005 from that structure change.
Mr. Gecy: Have we identified any sewer lines that need replacing that you know of.
Mr. Hawes: We’re in the process of identifying all basins, with regard to rehab, replacement, capacity issues and I&I issues. That’s what over $100,000 of the money that’s been spent in the past year is going towards.
Mr. Gecy: So what’s the worst sewer line in the City. What’s the one that we need to go fix right now. We should go fix right now.
Mr. Hawes: I couldn’t say we don’t have the results of all the studies in to determine. We have a priority one basin
Mr. Gecy: What’s that
Mr. Hawes: That’s the Stonebridge basin.
Mr. Gecy: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor: Okay, anyone else. All right, well I want to go back to the Main Street , streetscape project. I asked you this question the other day but I want you to answer it for the benefit of everybody else that’s here. Someone asked me about why we pull out a sidewalk, particularly right here in front of the bank next door and put the little narrow sidewalk back in. And I had some concerns about that after they asked me and you explained that. So how about explain that to everybody else here who’s walking sideways going down the street.
Mr. Hawes: Right, the width of the sidewalk, the walking area is going to be unchanged at the completion of the project. What you will have is about two feet of the area directly behind the curve, is where the utility encasements will be and they’ll be covered with a decorative brick treatment. Basically a brick going horizontally then vertically then horizontally then vertically. It really adds a little penash to the roadside where the utilities are underground. It also serves a dual purpose of allowing us to get or the utilities to get to their lines without tearing the sidewalk up and just pull the bricks out as they need to get to it. So that’s what you’re going to have. You’ll have the same width of sidewalk as you have currently, before the cuts were made. It’s just that portion that was cut between the cut and the curb will be replaced with bricks.
Mayor: Okay, we need to kind of let everybody know that if we can because there was some concern about that. The 4-way stop that the DOT is looking at at the corner of Richardson and or intersection of Richardson and South Main, Main , right there behind the Veteran’s Monument. Have we heard anything back on that.
Mr. Hawes: No, we have heard – we know that the implementation of the 4-way is underway at South Street and Richardson, but we haven’t heard anything definitive on Main at Richardson .
Mayor: Well when I last talked to them they were doing traffic counts and that sort of thing
Mr. Hawes: They’re looking at a lot of things
Mayor: I assumed they would come back to you and I haven’t heard anything so –
Mr. Hawes: Correct, I spoke with Eric Dillon from SCDOT last Friday in a meeting concerning the stop signs and the streetscape and a number of other issues. And he did not indicate that they had completed their analysis yet.
Mayor: Okay, well you might want to remind him if he calls again. So, all right – Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: One quick question about the Cedar Cove sidewalk. Is that Cedar Cove sidewalk – is that in the works. Is this something that has been contracted that we’re going to do.
Mr. Hawes: This is something that we will have underway very soon.
Mr. Gecy: Are we paying or are they paying
Mr. Hawes: We’re putting it in but we’re working to use state funding for the materials.
Mr. Gecy: From what pot. C-Funds
Mr. Hawes: No, no – the contractual agreement whereby the City works with the State on State Roads. Fernwood is a State Road .
Mr. Gecy: Oh it is – okay.
Mayor: Okay – Chief do you have a comment.
Chief Reece: I don’t know if Mr. Hawes knows it or not – I’ve talked to them and they have put up signs and posted it – they will install those 4-ways March 2 nd . So it’s posted for community notice and they will be installed March 2 nd .
Mayor: Both of them, South Street intersection and the Main Street intersection?
Chief Reece: I don’t know about on Veteran’s Monument side, but I do know about down by Hovis.
Mayor: yeah, we had heard back on that but I hadn’t heard anything back on the other.
Chief Reece: He didn’t mention that to me when we talked.
Mayor: Okay – well he may call you to so whichever one he calls first please let us know so we can answer questions about that.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir.
Mayor: All right thank you very much council. We’ll move right along.
ORDINANCES • GO Bond – Street Resurfacing – 1 st Reading Mayor: Mr. Hawes you’re going to talk to us about a GO Bond for street resurfacing. I see we talked about it at our planning retreat.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir Mayor and Council, at our planning retreat we discussed basically a continuation of the discussion that was brought up at the prior workshop meeting regarding the need for resurfacing a number of City streets. The City has had a priority list for a number of years and we’ve worked through the means that were available to us with C-Funds and the Greenville County Legislative Delegation Transportation Committee to attempt to receive the gas tax C-fund monies that would be well allocated to this purpose. And we did do that two years ago with a project that did 8 streets. We have 44 streets on the priority list. 8 have been done in the last two years so that leaves 36 streets that have been identified as priority improvements and one thing that we discussed at the retreat was the fact that these streets are not getting any better. And in order to get ahead of the curve it would be advisable to consider taking care of the ones that are in dire need immediately in basically one fell swoop. And then we can stay ahead of the curve with the GCLDTC and C-funds money. That would be the Legislative Delegation and Transportation Committee C-funds money. Now that they have a program that apparently is established regarding a 50/50 City match and the participation costs of their contractor to do the work. So, what we’d be looking at is allocating that match in this upcoming fiscal year but basically setting up a GO Bond for the roads that we currently have on the priority list and this would allocate approximately $750,000 to paving needs. It would also take care of some paving needs at three of our fire stations with regard to some crumbling pavement there and better access through one of the stations. So, it’s a good treatment. It uses our financial ratings to our advantage rather than depleting them by any use of fund balance. And it’s certainly a very feasible and working plan.
Mayor: Okay, thank you. I’ll entertain a motion in this regard so that we can discuss it. Ms. Lawrence:
Ms. Lawrence: Yes Mr. Mayor I make a motion that we accept on first reading the GO Bond for street resurfacing.
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Lawrence, do I hear a second
Mr. Bridges: Second
Mayor: Mr. Bridges seconds. Discussion – Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: Mr. Hawes and Council, shouldn’t we as citizens expect to have road paving done as part of our taxes. And can anybody explain to me why we haven’t been doing that and what are we going to do in the future.
Mr. Hawes: Would you like me to answer that Council, because he directed it to both. I’ll be glad to – first of all this would be from taxes certainly. But, you say our citizens expect road paving to be done through taxes. Well the gas tax is collected and distributed and we see not a share of it. And we have been working diligently to receive some share of that for road paving. Two years ago we got a share with a match. The – I think the pertinent question here is should we have to match the citizens property taxes to funding on a 50/50 basis in order to receive a share of the gas tax that is rightly allocated to the roads in this area. And that’s something perhaps we need to address at a later time. But, we certainly want to make sure that we stay ahead of the game with roads as they alligator they become more expensive to repair. They require full depth patching and full depth resurfacing, rather than just a top treatment of two inches. So this is the time where we’ve identified that the normal means of paving that would be available to us has not been sufficient to stay ahead of the curve so therefore we will issue this bond on top of the curve and they stay ahead of it with allocations on a year to year basis of matching funds to the LGTC Transportation Committee monies.
Mr. Gecy: Okay, how – if we do this – if we pass this – how quickly would we have money in our hand.
Mr. Hawes: We would be able to do paving this summer. That’s one of the intents – that we’re in the middle of a budget year – you could wait to allocate this money in July, but to tell you the truth if we want to get this done and get it done on a timely basis and the quicker the better in order to address these needs – we could have the bond money in in about a month or a month and a half and let the bids about a month after that.
Mr. Gecy: So we’re not really going to get any spring paving done.
Mr. Hawes: Well actually I think they could be out before June 21 st which would still be spring.
Mr. Gecy: Do we have a company that we would like to use that could possibly give us a good break if we would do all these roads at one time. I mean would we get the rate the state gives us or gets. I mean can we get a good rate on these things so we can stretch it out. Because this is a lot of roads to do at one time.
Mr. Hawes: Well certainly. The City has and the council adopted a procurement procedure that we abide by and we will bid the project. Being a bulk bid I would expect that we would have a very good rate on the purchase of the asphalt and the companies that are involved in doing it will probably jump at an opportunity here.
Mr. Gecy: So if we put $750,000 on the table are we going to have to – are we going to do this pretty much on our own or are we going to have to go through any other entity to
Mr. Hawes: This money goes all to the benefit of the streets. I mean that’s we don’t have a go-between company, an administrative company like COTRANSO, the Transportation Committee C-fund monies have to go through.
Mr. Gecy: Now this list that I have had for a good while – that starts with Oakland Avenue to East Curtis to Eastview Drive . Is that – Mr. Carter does that sound like the current paving schedule – oh yeah that’s Phase II.
Mr. Hawes: It actually starts with Trade Street , Frankfort Court and some others.
Mr. Gecy: All right, who’s got the right one.
Mr. Hawes: I think you’ve got the same one I’ve got but remember there are 8 that have already been done.
Mr. Gecy: All right the roads checked off we did. So Trade would be way down here.
Mr. Hawes: Correct
Mr. Gecy: So what would be the first one on the list Dorian.
Ms. Lawrence: Yeah
Mr. Hawes: I believe that is correct
Mr. Gecy: Dorian and then Brentwood and then Cook, West Circle , Hudders Creek
Mr. Hawes: Hudders Creek’s already been done.
Mr. Gecy: Hudders Creek Way to Picton was done. And Trade Street to Frankfort Court on that first page. But as we bid these out we’re going to do – I’m just trying to get it on the record so our constituents can hear their name and let the bell ring and stand out there and wait for them to pave their road. I would like for this to be published. If we do this we need to just hand this to the newspaper and have them print it so we’re obligated. One thing I don’t want us to do is sit on $750,000 and sneak it into the General Fund for a little while and not do paving for a long while. Promise me that.
Mr. Hawes: I can assure you that the money as it is received will go to bidding the projects out and paying the bidders.
Mr. Gecy: How long will we have to borrow this money for. How long will it take to pay it back.
Mr. Hawes: I believe that the final GO Bond documents identified a 10 year pay back but I could be wrong on that it may be 15. Because we had talked
Mayor: I think it’s 15
Mr. Hawes: Is it 15. It’s 15.
Mr. Gecy: This list though is not going to change right.
Mr. Hawes: If council requests that we not change it we’ll be glad to not change it.
Mr. Gecy: There’s not another list
Mr. Hawes: There is no other list that I’m aware of.
Mr. Gecy: Okay, because I mean I’d like for that to be agreed on. And has this – one more thing – I’m sorry – Mr. Carter has this changed in priority at all as far as you know you’re talking about some streets alligatoring and becoming worse than others. Has any new streets you know need to get on this list.
Mr. Carter: No sir. That was the list we put out I don’t know 3-4 years ago. Same list. We had a
Mr. Gecy: It’s likely we could have some other bad streets though.
Mr. Carter: There’s a possibility that some could have gotten worse. But these were bad then so that’s I guess why Russ said it’s up to you all, if you want to stick with this or want to relook at the streets and see if some of them have gotten worse and rate a different priority.
Mayor: That’s why I said at the last meeting, we talked about this. I actually went out and road these streets and I think some of you others might have to. And I can assure you that we need a new priority list because as I stated Dorian is the next one on the list but if you turn onto Brentwood Way or Brentwood Circle to get to Dorian – and I’ve got to tell you you can tear the undercarriage out from under your car or your truck on Brentwood before you get to Dorian. So – and I know you said something about those were potholes and this other was gator backing but I think we need to get it all. And what I would like to see is you and whomever you choose – some impartial, non-political – you know nobody that lives around here person who’s familiar with paving in your department to go out and ride these streets again – ride the other streets and prepare an updated priority list. Because you just said this is 3 years old and a lot of things can happen in three years and I submit that we’ve got streets out there that are much worse than Dorian and West – and not to say that they’re not bad and we need to attend to them but I think perhaps we might need to add some streets to the list and re-prioritize some of these. So I’d like to ask that we do that before we – and then it’s okay to publish the list – but before we publish the list let’s get a list that we can all agree on. And perhaps you’ll come back with some explanation and say you don’t know what you’re talking about and we still need to do Dorian first and the rest of them and if that’s the case I’ll accept that. But I would like for you, and as I said one of your staff members who doesn’t live in Simpsonville or have any relatives down here or any political connections to go out and ride the neighborhoods and consider this list.
Mr. Carter: Okay, I can do that.
Mayor: Okay, - can everybody agree with that.
Mr. Gecy: But also lets leave open the fact that we are way behind on this and $750,000 might not make it – you might have to add more streets to it. Let’s not – we’ve got such a good interest rate we might as well -
Mr. Mayor: But you’ve still got to pay it back
Mr. Gecy: That’s exactly right
Mr. Mayor: Well you still have the floor
Mr. Gecy: No, I’m finished.
Mayor: Anyone else. Well I actually have some concerns about this and I know this is commonly done and I know there are other cities and other agencies, DOT did this a few years ago. Issue bonds so that you can do 5-6 years paving in one year and then you pay the bonds back – but I really have some concerns about increasing our bond indebtedness. How close are we to our bond cap. Can you give us a number on that – I know we’re regulated by the State. We can only issue bonds up to a certain percentage of our taxable value. SO where are we right now. If we issue this – how close are we.
Mr. Hawes: On a percentage basis
Mayor: Well yeah, what is it 12% that we’re
Mr. Hawes: No, no – 8%
Mayor: So see even less than I thought.
Mr. Hawes: To answer your question – I’d say that we’re about 85% of our bond capacity in the 8%.
Mayor: So we’ll have about 15% left – my fear is – because I’ve often set up here and talked about we have this great bond rating – practically free money that we can use for our emergency situation. But if we start getting too close to that bond cap – I know we’ve got a couple of bonds that are going to be paid off in the next two years I believe – is that correct.
Mr. Hawes: Correct
Mayor: But God forbid that we have another bridge go out or we have who know what happening in the next two years so – can you make me feel comfortable about that Mr. Hawes.
Mr. Hawes: Yes, I believe I can because that would be true if the 8% were a static number. However, we’re having a reassessment in Greenville County and that will reset our total assessed value on which the 8% is based and we know it will be at least 15%. Then there is the question of whether the state can actually limit the actual assessed value on which the 8% is based or do they have to – how can I explain this – or do they have to base the 8% on the total actual value of the assessed properties. Because see it’s limited for tax purposes.
Mayor: Well that’s what it’s based upon.
Mr. Hawes: No, they’re going to limit it for tax purposes at 15%. The new assessment. Do you understand what I’m saying. Ms. Lawrence is nodding.
Mayor: Yeah, you’re talking about the – yes – the increased value of the new assessment.
Mr. Hawes: The question is will the 8% be based on that limited – that limitation or will it be based on the actual values which may have gone up 25% which we’ve already heard from our County representatives.
Mayor: Who’s going to determine that – I don’t want to be in Court
Mr. Hawes: That will be a question of law most likely.
Mayor: So we could end up in Court
Mr. Hawes: Not actually – most likely someone – a larger city will end up trying to determine that. Or the Municipal Association or someone on behalf of all cities.
Mayor: I’d like to see some actual numbers on that between now and the second reading. I’m going to vote for this tonight, but I’d like to see some actual – not percentages but numbers. We will have 15 million in bonding capacity left – or what – just give us a real number so that we can consider that before we jump off on this – this is a well conceived notion – I’m not criticizing this except to the extent that it concerns me a little bit. So –
Mr. Hawes: You have that question about how close we are to our bonding –
Mayor: All right. Thank you sir.
Mr. Zitricki: Mr. Mayor
Mayor: Mr. Zitricki
Mr. Zitricki: Mr. Hawes – if we did not accept this GO Bond how many streets would we pave in the next two years.
Mr. Hawes: If we worked with the C-Funds under their current scenario where they limit us to $100,000 match – probably about 15 streets.
Mr. Zitricki: And if we accepted it how many streets would we pave.
Mr. Hawes: 15 plus about 40
Mr. Zitricki: Okay – thank you
Mr. Hawes: That’s approximately – assuming that $750,000 goes as far as we expect it to.
Mr. Zitricki: Okay thank you.
Mayor: I have one other question. Mr. Carter – these assessments of these streets –are you talking about paving the entire street or are you talking about part of a street, half a street – just the part where the gator backing is occurring. What was your assessment of all this.
Mr. Carter: Well on this – if you’ll look on the chart it shows what intersection you start at and finish at – it should have a from and a two. The places where the alligatoring is that will have to be dug up first and new base put in and come back and overlay. The only thing I would hesitate doing was run that list in the paper because you might not be able to pave all of them and then somebody’s going to say well you told me you was going to and it didn’t happen so – when you start doing full depth patching it could be a whole lot worse like Bonwood for example, was a whole lot worse than it appeared. When we got in there it took a lot more to get the base and all fixed on Bonwood. So that’s just going to eat up more of your asphalt. So it might not go the full 35 or whatever streets if you know what I’m trying to say. If you’re limited to $750,000 you’re limited to whatever it’s going to take to do this list and that’s a different question.
Mayor: Okay, well it sounds like some good information.
Mr. Gecy: Would you allow a courtesy –a guy looks like he wants to ask a question.
Mayor: Well he does but that’s not appropriate at this point. If you have something to say about the streets talk with Mr. Carter over there. He’ll be glad to take any input you have. And I’m sorry but we have – that’s quite all right. All right does anyone else up here have anything to say. All right – all in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it. I meant to remind you that this would first reading, but you all knew that so it will require a second reading. Thank you Mr. Hawes.
RESOLUTIONS • To set date for Special Election Mayor: All right Mr. Holmes. You’re going to talk to us about a special election.
Mr. Holmes: Mr. Mayor you will need to set a date for a special election for Council Ward IV. There is no statutory authority that says when the special election has to be set for but I’m recommending that you set the date for the election out at least 90 days. If you do that the election would be on Tuesday, May 29 th , 2007. You could choose to wait to set that at the next voting meeting but that would push everything out by 3 weeks and would push us into the summer time. I’ve spoken with Conway Belangia and I think that the date of May 29 th , 2007 works for him. As you all know there are certain procedures that we have to go through. We have to advertise the election. We have to send a submission to the United States Department of Justice for pre-clearance setting the date out 90 days would give us that time. So I’m recommending that the City tonight vote to set the special election for Tuesday, May 29 th , 2007.
Mayor: All right I’ll open the floor to a proposed resolution in that regard. Mr. Zitricki
Mr. Zitricki: I move that we set Tuesday, May 29 th , 2007 as the date for the special election for City Council Ward IV.
Mayor: Okay
Mr. Bridges: Second
Mayor: All right and Mr. Gecy has recused himself from this vote because he is personally involved. I have a motion and a second any discussion. All right hearing none I’ll call for the vote. All those in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. So Tuesday, May 29 th , 2007 will be the date. Thank you Mr. Holmes.
NEW BUSINESS • Discussion on Vision Statement Mayor: Next is Mr. Hawes you’re back up again. You’re going to talk to us about our vision statement.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mayor and Council – we had a very productive retreat first of all and I want to commend everybody for their involvement in it. I thought it was an excellent retreat. We brought in a facilitator from the University of South Carolina who did a fine job and just for the record say that I think we’re moving forward very well on possibly identifying a vision statement. The Mayor himself actually came up with something that approximated a vision statement right off the top of his head. But as part of your packet, we have some – a little synopsis of some of the things that were discussed about what the City should be – what it should strive for – what it should be in 5 years and some of the discussion that was had by City Council at the retreat. What I would ask is that you all take a look at what you have before you and maybe brain storm a little bit and at our next workshop if you would like we could discuss trying to put together a vision statement right out here.
Mayor: Okay – well I appreciate those kind words but I’m sure some of these folks up here can make it sound a little better than I did. So you want us to think about it between now and then – talk about it between now and then
Mr. Hawes: I’ll put it on the Agenda for next workshop.
Mayor: All right – if that’s okay with everybody we’ll do that at the next workshop.
Mr. Hawes: Okay you’ve got it.
• Planner/Zoning Administrator Position Mayor: All right – you’re still up Mr. Hawes. Talk to us about the Planner and Zoning Administrator Position.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mayor and Council. Also at the retreat, and certainly prior to the retreat there were a number of discussions about the changes and the growth patterns of the City. Changes at the Administrative level in the County and the independent county planning commission basis with regard to the staff of the Planning Commission now coming under County directive. And they’re less independent I guess is the best way to put that. With those items in mind it would be my recommendation and in speaking with the folks that currently do our zoning administration and the planning aspects. It would be my recommendation that City Council consider hiring a City Planner on staff for the City of Simpsonville to work with the Planning Commission, work with me and work with council on formulating and developing plans and implementations of development policies and future needs for the City with regards to growth. I want to identify the funding source for this scenario – the gentlemen at Craven and Associates who have served so effectively and diligently for the City for many years actually suggested that they could drop that aspect from their job – from their duties with the City and focus directly on building inspections – which is probably their primary forte – their highest and best use so to speak. And they would be amenable to changing their compensation structure to accommodate this change in duties. That change in the compensation structure would facilitate some additional monies available for the planning position. So we believe that this is basically a revenue neutral proposal. There is an immediate start-up cost that is in the $10,000 range that’s identifying furniture, setting up an office – things along those lines. But, we believe that we can work that in the current budget in administrative contingency. So I would ask council, based on what was discussed at the retreat to affirm that the City create that position and implement it immediately.
Mayor: Okay – any comments – Ms. Lawrence
Ms. Lawrence: Yes sir, Mr. Mayor I would like to see this happen. I myself would like to see Mr. Hawes go forward with getting somebody on staff. I don’t see the point of waiting until the next budget year. I think we need to go ahead with all the growth we’ve got going on – fixing to go on – I think we need to be right there with it.
Mayor: Okay. Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: And I disagree. I think we have the strongest Planning Commission we’ve ever had. And I think we’re utilizing for little charge if any the Greenville County’s Planner and we have just a certain area we’re going to be effective in the future and we’re making great inroads to put over-lay districts in place and I think all of you will agree we have a very active and a very determined Planning Commission that plans on bringing us some good healthy recommendations.
Mayor: Very cost effective to I might add.
Mr. Gecy: And they earn their keep. But I think the make-up of one extreme to the other gives us people who are interested in development – people who are protective of citizens and people who are just genuinely dedicated to having a smart growth plan for the City. And I think the same thing would be said for hiring a planner. However, I think we already have that now. You know I thought – I at one time thought it would be a better plan to have an inspection department in the City where we hired a full time building inspector that would you know build our inspection department up that would include maybe some code enforcement people as well, if we were to make a change in that area. But, to just have a planner on board I think is just more expense. We already have a very effective – I think a very effective planning commission right now. That’s just my opinion.
Mayor: Well I am seated very appropriately because I am right between the two of you. We had – you’re right and you’re right. We had one once years ago before you arrived and we called him a Planner. And he had experience in that and was very good at that. But he also did just about everything else. He was kind of like a boy Friday if you will. He assisted with a lot of different things including finance – well our Finance Director’s not here tonight – he might not like to hear me say that – but he assisted with Finance – he assisted with Special Projects that we had in place and if your plan is – as I look at this job description and I don’t see much of that in here but if your plan is to have someone who can not only function as a Planning Director but as a lot of other things then I’m willing to listen. Of course when we talked at the Planning Retreat everybody seemed to be jacked up about it but I’ve thought about it a little bit more and like I say I’m about half way between these two folks here. So is that kind of what you had in mind or are you talking about something else.
Mr. Hawes: I don’t know that he would be a boy Friday but – I think there’s certainly aspects of the position that would lend themselves to projects work.
Mayor: For instance
Mr. Hawes: This person would work directly for me – you know any type of analysis regarding demographics or trend analysis or things along those lines would be greatly appreciated by me because I’m the one who does it right now and it would free me up for some other things. Of course, I’m a planner by education and by experience so I know that planners are well versed in those matters and it is a – it’s a well-rounded type of position that would be adaptable to needs.
Mayor: Well we hired you as the City Administrator and I know you’re a very energetic young fellow but let me tell you it ain’t always going to be that way. And you’re going to start running out of steam one of these days. But anyhow, a good example – well I just want to – us experienced folks have to warn you young whipper snappers about that kind of thing – but just tonight we’ve talked about some things – for instance the streetscape downtown. And I know Joe’s – Joe left – but Joe’s on top of that and his people are on top of that but you stay on top of it to so that you can report to us like you did tonight. A person in this position could take on projects like that. These sewer things that we’ve been talking about – the sewer studies and all that sort of stuff he could take on some of that. So my vision for this position and I’ll just say it again about half way between where these two folks are. I do think we need the position we could use somebody for that and a lot of other things but I also I just think it would be better – and that’s a bad term to use – maybe even illegal, I’m sorry Mr. Attorney but that illustrates what I’m thinking about – somebody that can perhaps – well as a matter of fact didn’t we call him a Special Projects Coordinator or something like that. I think that’s what we called him. That would be my vision there. Do either of the other two of you have a thought on this.
Mr. Zitricki: Yes. Mr. Hawes isn’t Greenville County revamping their Planning Commission or changing the way it works – who they report to.
Mr. Hawes: That was what I was alluding to yes. With regard to the staff of the Planning Commission – the staff of the Planning Commission will now report to – directly to the County Administrator
Mr. Zitricki: And that may change how they interact with us
Mr. Hawes: Quite plausibly
Mr. Zitricki: And we may lose all the assistance we were getting from Greenville County which is a big help to our Planning Commission
Mr. Hawes: Or we may have to pay for it
Mr. Zitricki: that is very talented and has a lot of ability to do the job but it relies a lot on Greenville County recommendations and the overlays and the maps that they give us to make a decision. I don’t believe we have the resources ourselves to be doing that kind of work. Am I mistaken
Mr. Hawes: You’re absolutely correct in everything that you’re saying Mr. Zitricki. That was one of the impetus at this point was the fundamental shift in how the staff will report. That is a significant shift.
Mr. Zitricki: Also if we don’t do something to be a little more proactive here we’re going to lose a lot of the abilities we’ve had in the past to look at a project and to make all these decisions we’re making and to have information available to us – we wouldn’t have that available to us per se like we did in the past. We need to do something on our own to have that information. I agree with the Mayor also if we can expand these duties as we have in the past with a Special Project Administrator besides doing this I think that would be really helpful to. Because there are a lot of things I think we’ve lost when that person left here.
Mr. Hawes: Well I can certainly change the job description and other project type duties as assigned or something along those lines.
Mr. Zitricki: I think we need this position here in Simpsonville with the rate of growth we’re having and what we may lose from Greenville County changing how they have their Planning Commission set up.
Mayor: Okay. Mr. Bridges
Mr. Bridges: With the possibility of us having to pay for services received from the County I think we ought to just go ahead and hire this guy.
Mayor: Okay. Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: So are we putting on the record that we’re assuming that the County is not going to provide this service any longer
Mr. Hawes: I wouldn’t say that I’m assuming that I’d say that it’s plausible.
Mr. Gecy: Okay
Mr. Hawes: And that’s my opinion – I don’t know what you all –
Mr. Gecy: I mean has anybody heard a suggestion from the Greenville County Planning that they were not going to provide this service.
Mr. Hawes: I can say we’ve been told that things will stay the same but through experience I think it’s unlikely – I think something will change – to what extent I couldn’t say at this point.
Mr. Gecy: I’d like to talk to Butch Kirven about it. Are we going to have to vote tonight.
Mayor: What are you looking for tonight – just discussion
Mr. Hawes: If council has a motion to create that position we will do that and get to work at filling it.
Mayor: Well I think perhaps if you’re going to change this job description – unless there’s some urgency here – perhaps we should wait until our next voting meeting – which is only a couple of weeks away.
Mr. Hawes: That’s up to council certainly.
Mayor: That’s just my comment – Ms. Lawrence
Ms. Lawrence: No that’s all right – that’s fine.
Mr. Zitricki: I really feel that – I’m really in favor of this position just because I sat on the Planning Commission for a number of years and to have somebody that’s focused directly on Simpsonville and working for the City looking at what our best interests are – not for Greenville County because I think sometimes the Greenville County Planning Commission looks at the over all effect for the Greenville County not for Simpsonville and we lose that aspect of having somebody work for us and I think we really need that with the type of growth we’re looking for and the vision we have for this City in our growth to keep it family oriented and keep it feeling like home – we need to have somebody here working for us. That’s all.
Mayor: Okay – so why don’t you put that on the Agenda for the next regular meeting and in the meanwhile if you’ll modify that maybe with some input from some of us up here – modify your job description and see if we can get something we all like and go from there.
Mr. Hawes: Certainly.
OLD BUSINESS • Code of Ordinances – Mayor: All right next on the Agenda is old business. Mr. Holmes you’re back up again to talk about that wonderful Code of Ordinances.
Mr. Holmes: Mr. Mayor you all have been provided a CD that has the entire Code of Ordinances on it. You have staff comments, you have my comments, you have one councilmember’s comments – I have waited for other comments. I have not received them.
Mr. Gecy: I turned them into Geneva
Mayor: She has way too much time on her hands.
Mr. Holmes; Well then perhaps I have two councilmembers –but all joking aside – we can – I just need to know whether anybody else has any other comments before I go and try to get it put in final form and get it back to you to take a look at.
Mayor: Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: I would like to make a comment, and I’m assuming that this hasn’t already been suggested, it involves cats and I do – I would like for us to add to the ordinance that we can as citizens call and request our animal control people to come and trap a cat and take care of it. They’ll do that for a dog – they won’t do it for a cat right now. And I would like then instead of destroying or whatever animal control ends up doing I want them to be able to hold it long enough for the Kitten Action Team to come see about the cat. We’re trying to fund that – I think it’s been a successful program – I’d like to see us increase the funding there but Ms. Lawrence is that in keeping with what you would like to see done. Can we add that with some verbage into the ordinance.
Ms. Lawrence: Yeah, I would particularly like to get kittens off the street. But, yes I mean – well I’m working with Colleen right now in fact with a bunch of cats over at one house that the woman wants them but she doesn’t have the money to spay or neuter them so we’re going to go over there Wednesday night and try and catch them all and get them you know taken care of for her so – the problem with the Ferrell cat situation is unless we take it and have it put to sleep it has got to go back somewhere. So, now if you catch it and it’s a nice cat we stand a chance of maybe being able to get it adopted. But –
Mayor: How can you tell the nice cat from the bad cats (Ms. Lawrence shows him her scratched up arm)
Mr. Holmes: Mr. Mayor if I could I think that those are some good suggestions but you may recall that we spent weeks in completely revamping the animal control ordinance and these are things we always are going to be able to continue to update but what we’re desperately needing to do is republish your code of ordinances and get them available on the web site and that’s what I’m looking for so that we can get everybody’s comments and get it out there and if we need to go back and add things we certainly can go back and do that.
Mr. Gecy: But are you saying that just because we make a comment it’s going to be put in there. Who’s going to decide who’s comments go in.
Mr. Holmes: Well what I’m trying to do is I think it may be as much as two years ago council wanted to go through each chapter and we had an overhead projector or put it up on the wall and that was frankly like pulling teeth to go through it and so to try to move this along the suggestion I have – but council can do it anyway you want to – is if you give me your suggestions – you want something changed or something deleted I will do the best I can to get that incorporated and get one whole document published and let you vote on it and then we can at least publish that new code of ordinances. Because your current code is just badly badly outdated.
Mr. Gecy: So what you’re saying is honestly if I turn something in and I like the phrase about trapping cats you’re going to put it in and if we vote on it –
Mr. Holmes: Well what I would need to do is what you’ve got right now has everybody’s comments so everybody can see what it is. It’s a lengthy document and if you do that I can try to add it but then I’ll need to break it out and say Mr. Gecy has suggested we do this language so that everybody else knows what I’ve changed. Because the difficulty – I tried – if you’ve ever looked at documents that are being amended there is what I call strike out or red line so we thought about doing that but there are so many comments and the code is so lengthy that if I try to present to you these two documents I think it would be so confusing that you wouldn’t know what was being taken out and what was added in. So what you’ve got right now is the Code relatively recently as you’ve adopted it and amended it up to this point with everybody’s comments that we’ve collated so far. All the department heads have had a period of time to comment about it and they’re in there as well.
Mayor: Okay so we understand that
Mr. Gecy: So where are we
Mayor: Okay Mr. Bridges
Mr. Bridges: If you’re going to add cats to it I’d like to add squirrels.
Mayor: Okay – so you’re going to provide us before the final document – what I’m asking yet again is comments and then comments about the comments. Because I think where we are right now is you have comments and it sounds like we may have some people that want to make comments about the comments – so are you going to provide all that back to us before we get the final draft that we vote on.
Mr. Holmes: Well what I’m saying is you have it now – if I hear council – I think you all are saying you want another period of time to where you comment on what you have – is that correct.
Mayor: I think some of us would like to make some comments on the comments – so
Mr. Holmes: Okay do you want to have another workshop session in 4 weeks
Mayor: Let’s don’t. Can we do that between now – can you distribute that to us and let people have say take the next week to do that and then in the final week before our next regular meeting if you can get all that together and distribute all that to us and let us all review it.
Mr. Holmes: Okay, well what else do you want me to give you besides what I’ve already – it’s already on a CD and we’ve burned it and I’ve given you everything I have up to date.
Mayor: Well what if you get some comments to the comments. If you don’t get anything then we’re good to go. All right. Ms. Lawrence
Ms. Lawrence: Did you read my comments because I sent them to you in this form.
Mayor: I did read your comments and I may have some comments about some of your comments.
Ms. Lawrence: And that’s fine so maybe write it on there.
Mayor: So we’ll get one more run at it is what
Ms. Lawrence: Well maybe if you built on mine and you go in there and put like Mayor I don’t think this should be two years I think it should be one and then send it out to everybody when you get all your comments and then Bob could add his and Ron his and Mike his – but use this as a base and then if there’s any more to add – add it in here
Mayor: Well that’s what I’m saying but he’s going to be the go-to guy on this and he’s going to be in charge of – we’re going to feed it to him and he’s going to regurgitate it and send it all back out to us and then next meeting – I mean this is your last shot – you’ve got one week to do this – or whatever they do – I don’t know what lawyers do.
Mr. Holmes: You have a lot of reading to do
Mayor: I know – I know – I’ve already done some. All right, so we have a plan right. All right, thank you very much. Next item is – Mr. Gecy – we have a need for an Executive Session to discuss a personnel matter regarding administration – Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: I’d like to make a motion to amend the Agenda to include another personnel matter regarding the election commission.
Mayor: Okay – I have a motion do I hear a second
Mr. Zitricki: I’ll second it Mr. Mayor
Mayor: All right, any discussion. Hearing none I’ll call for the vote. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. All right but we still have a need for an Executive Session
EXECUTIVE SESSION Mayor: I’ll entertain a motion
Mr. Gecy: I move that we go into Executive Session
Mr. Holmes: For a personnel matter in administration and a personnel matter regarding the election commission
Mr. Gecy: Precisely
Mayor: All right do I hear a second
Mr. Zitricki: Second.
Mayor: All those in favor signify by saying Aye )(AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it – it’s unanimous. We are adjourned to Executive Session. Thank you all for coming.
Came out of Executive Session – No action was taken.
ADJOURNMENT Ms. Lawrence: Mr. Mayor I make a motion we adjourn.
Mr. Zitricki: Second
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Lawrence, Mr. Zitricki seconds. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. We’re adjourned. Thank you all for coming.
Respectfully submitted,
PAMELA J. BODKINS City Clerk |
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