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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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AMENEDED SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP SESSIONJuly 22, 20086:30 p.m. City Council Chambers- 118 N.E. Main St .
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor: Call the July Workshop of Simpsonville City Council to order. I’d like to welcome you all here.
ROLL CALL: Mayor: Mrs. Bridgeman would you call roll please?
Mrs. Bridgeman: Councilmember Bridges: Here Councilmember Garrett: Here Councilmember Sanders: Here Councilmember Bagwell: Here Councilmember Curtis: Here Councilmember Larson: Here Mayor Waldrop: Here
Mayor: Thank you Mrs. Bridgeman
INVOCATION Mayor: Anyone here who would like to ask blessings on this meeting in your own personal way? Ms. Bagwell would you ask blessings on this meeting in your own personal way?
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor: Will you all join us now in the Pledge of Allegiance to our Flag?
CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor: This is the portion of our program where we invite citizen comments. If you called ahead and asked to be placed on the agenda, you can speak to us for 4 minutes, give or take, depending on how interesting you are. We will answer questions and respond to you because this is a workshop meeting. If you signed up when you came in we will give you 2 minutes to do the same and we will begin with those who asked to be placed on the agenda.
• Linda Curtis- Sign Ordinance Mayor: I understand Ms. Curtis has been asked to be moved down to the tag team of Leonardi / Curtis, is that correct?
Ms. Curtis: I can go ahead now.
Mayor: Whatever you are comfortable with.
Ms. Curtis: I will go ahead now. I won’t mess with the game plan.
Mayor: If you will state your address for the record, you may begin.
Ms. Curtis: Linda Curtis. Residence: 904 Willow Branch Drive . Business: 421 North Main Street , Antiques Unlimited. It says here for sign ordinance, I would like to speak about another issue as well. As for the sign ordinance, Rick has put together a presentation and everyone has pulled their resources and worked hard in coming up with some ideas and some opinions of how things can be better as far as the sign ordinance in Simpsonville because it is hard to do business in downtown Simpsonville. We are a hidden spot of Simpsonville and unless you just have to be driving through, we are not a hub yet. The signs are extremely important. I found that out at my business by getting permission to hang a temporary banner. I hung it for the 30-day period and we tripled our traffic and tripled our sales and I put a survey out asking people how did you find out about us and 9 out of 10 people marked “signage”. It works and it is time for downtown Simpsonville to be able to support your mom and pop business. Give them what they need to operate. We are loosing too many businesses. It is like a revolving door in downtown Simpsonville. People want to open up and make an honest living and make it in downtown Simpsonville and within a year they close their door. It is time for that to stop, it is time for Simpsonville to get behind them and support them. The more money they can generate, the more money for Simpsonville. We need to support our citizens and we need to support our businesses in this effort, it is really important. The other thing I wanted to mention for just a second is about the Davenport Road Petition. I just want to say that the residence of Hunters Woods that use Davenport Road to get in and out of the neighborhood believe there needs to be work done on Davenport but I think what we need to keep in mind is that Davenport runs through a lot of connections to neighborhoods. The first priority in my opinion is safety, efficiency not so much. We don’t care that it is efficient and it is made to look like a highway or change the purpose for the road. The purpose for the road needs to stay the same. It just needs to be made safer. With that in mind, we would like to see changes made such as at certain intersections maybe a traffic island put in to have one-way traffic going around the island or speed bumps. If you do it that way you are going to cut down on the pollution of start and stop traffic because there is a lot of homes that are right there on Davenport . We would like your consideration on that and take the residence on that into consideration on that topic. That’s all I have to say. You didn’t even have to call the clock on me tonight.
Mayor: I didn’t. I think you did well. Thank you.
• Wade Shealy- Arts Center Mayor: All right, next is Wade Shealy. Mr. Shealy if you would state your address for the record please sir, you may begin.
Mr. Shealy: Wade Shealy. I reside at 202 West Fernwood Road in the great city of Simpsonville South Carolina . Honorable Council and Honorable Mayor, I bring you greetings from the Arts Foundation and to bore you with our annual or semi-annual report depending on how often I get here. I promise the city that we would do a number of things this year and I would like to tell you the things that we have accomplished and that will be on board. In October of last year the Kruger Brothers performed in Simpsonville at the future Fine Arts Center located on Academy Street , at the intersection of College. I tell you that because you know exactly where it is. There were about 450 people present and as usual, they put on a world class performance. In March of this year, Steve Kaufmann and Gary Davis performed to a crowd of over 600 people and again it was magnificent and a quality performance, worthy of any place in the country. In April, we had a little different experience in that we had a community sing-a-long. It was an experiment kind of on the grand scale of something I have done on a smaller scale previously. We had something less than 100 people there and they enjoyed singing along to the music of Mac Morgan and listening to a teenage group of musicians called “New Fire”. In September, or late August of this year, the Simpsonville Labor Day festival, which will be the 34 th annual Labor Day Family Fun Festival, we are bringing to Simpsonville a lady from Tampa , Florida ; she operates under Drum Lady or Drum Magic. She teaches and performs with Congo Drums and allows, pretty much insists that the audience participate with her and she does this all over the county and anyone can participate that is willing to as long as they are old enough and large enough to operate a Congo Drum. That is a great experience and I know it will be a great addition to the Labor Day festival in Late August. On October 25 th , the Kruger Brothers will return to Simpsonville again, they are delighted to play this venue because we have such a fine audience that appreciates their world class music and they will be here again on October 25 th . I want to thank you for your support and all of your attendance from the city and the residence at these venues and hope that they will continue. The Simpsonville Arts Foundation supports the development of the facility into a first class Fine Arts Center and the development of a plan that will benefit all of the citizens of Simpsonville in the arena of arts. I understand and know that those ideas are in the process and I congratulate you on that and look forward to a fruition of that effort. Thank you very much.
Mayor: Thank you. And thank you for all of your hard work in bringing all of these entertainment groups to Simpsonville, they are really kind of special. Thank you. All right, next we have those who signed up at the door and you will have about 20 minutes. Two minutes, I said 2 minutes. I can give them 20 minutes if they are really interesting. These people may leave but that’s ok. Doris Hegler. Ms. Hegler, if you will give us your address for the record, you may begin.
Ms. Hegler: I live at 110 Morgan Circle here in Simpsonville for 40 years. I would like to speak up against the idea of Sunday alcohol being put on the ballet. I still think Simpsonville is a city that thinks that Sunday is the Lords Day and I am sorry that it is at Heritage Park but I don’t want to see it on the ballet if possible. I would like to give you some statistics about alcohol. Each year alcohol related crashes in the US cost $51 billion, alcohol vehicle crashes kills someone every 31 minutes. Every 2 minutes there is an alcohol related injury. During 200, 16,885 people died in alcohol related motor vehicle crashes. Nearly 1.4 million drivers were arrested for DUI in 2005. More than half of the 414 child passengers ages14 and younger, involved in alcohol related crashes died while riding with drinking drivers. 48 children ages 14 and younger were killed as pedestrians were killed by impaired drivers. I think that Simpsonville can do without having alcohol on Sunday when you look at these figures and these are all on the Internet and they come from the CDC and the National Headquarters. Thank you very much.
Mayor: Thank you. All right next is Tama Burns, is that right?
Ms. Burns: Yes Sir
Mayor: If you will give us your address for the record, you may begin.
Ms. Burns: Thank you. I live at 501 Davenport Road in Simpsonville and I thank you very much for the chance to share my feelings about the Davenport Road project. I also thank Ms. Bagwell for her consideration, she has been in touch with me frequently and today Mr. Hawes gave me quite a few minutes, thank you sir for helping me understand the situation.
Mr. Hawes: You’re welcome.
Ms. Burns: I came into it a little bit late but this is what I understand and I know you already understand this. Widening our road is necessary because it needs to be reengineered for drainage and also because a dangerous entrance into Hunters Hill Drive . I have experienced that a good many times in my time of living at my address for about 17 years. I do know a little bit about traffic on Davenport Road at all times of the day and night. As a long time resident, I am concerned about the things that I have observed. Traffic is speeding and it is very excessive and frequent enough to make the road a danger for us. We have seen an increase of people who are daring to walk or ride on this road even in its current condition, which is scary. We have a lot of cut through traffic. We have several subdivisions beyond Davenport Road that use it as a convenient cut through for many different reasons, many of which is to reach 385 and development on Fairview. I strongly feel this cut through needs to be discouraged; I think the way to do that is to make Davenport Road less convenient. I think the folks that live on Davenport Road and use it because we live in the area or subdivision that goes out onto it will be thankful for that to make it less convenient to just cut through. We would like to have more of a neighborhood feel and less of a freeway feel and it is important to us. So any common measures that we can do to decrease traffic and speed will be important. Living there as long as I have, I have seen a lot of the police coming in and out, occasionally they actually come into our part of Davenport Road to ticket people, its very frequent, lets just put it that way. I’ve took a look at where Mr. Hawes and Ms. Bagwell have suggested we put stop signs, other than what we have and I have some suggestions for that. One at Alder Drive is essential; I think that I understand from Mr. Hawes that Ms. Bagwell suggested one at Pinonwood as well. There is two tenths of a mile between those two points. Between Alder and Hunters Hill Drive, there is six tenths of a mile roughly, that is better than a drag strip and I know from personal experience that it is used as a drag strip frequently for all types of vehicles, all times of the day and night. It is loud and scary and you just pray no one else is on the road, it needs to stop. Stop signs and these speed humps would be great. Traffic islands would be great but we don’t want to loose too much of our property but we do want it to be safer. I recommend a three way stop at Vinewood Court which would basically cut that six tenths of a mile in half roughly. I know that stops will make it loud and things have to stop and start again, so there is more pollution but honestly I feel like they should engineer these things up front so that it will save you all time in the long run. We know that people speed there, so with those two stop signs they still have a tenth of a mile to speed up, a quarter of a mile to see what they can do and another tenth of a mile to slow down before they get to Alder. That is just not acceptable, I live in the middle of all of that. Getting in and out of the driveways has already been addressed at our last meeting so I want to suggest that other than those stops signs, we are going to need something else there as well, like a traffic island or speed table so it will make them slow way down. We talked about bike leans today, my husband is a cyclist and there are a lot of other people I have seen cycling. Youngsters use their bikes to get in and out of that area to go to developments and go to friends houses and go across the road, that’s scary. I would not allow my children to do it without a parent and that’s sad. To be a community we should have a little more of a freedom to do that. We want it to be a neighborhood feel if that is possible and I appreciate your time and your consideration. Thank you.
Mayor: Thank you. All right that is all of the folks that asked to speak to us tonight and I thank you all. This is all good information that we will carefully consider.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Mayor: Next item on the agenda is council comments. Do any of you have any comments?
Ms. Bagwell: First of all, I would like to give Mr. Carter and Public Works kudos, they have been out working since 4 or 5 o’clock this morning and some of them are probably still out, picking up tree limbs and all of the debris from the winds. So thank you and your guys, you have worked so hard. My husband pulled into city park to drop our child off today and that was about 7:45 this morning and they were already loading stuff up and getting out of there, so thank you. Another thing is concerning those tickets over on Davenport Road , obviously the Police Department is doing their job. I got a phone call from someone I knew the other day, who wasn’t paying attention, going about 14 miles over the speed limit and they received a ticket. So that’s why I was like that’s why they are sitting there. She’s like ‘when did they start sitting in people’s driveway?’ well that’s what they are there to do so thank you guys for that. Mayor, I would like to concur with something Ms. Burns just suggested. As I road down Davenport Road the other day, me and you have discuss Alder and Hunters Hill having possible stop signs, I would have to agree with her as I drove down through there, if the police department would look at this as well, I think that Vinewood needs one as well. That is a very long stretch. I know that road is considered a through street. As I’ve discussed, it is a connectors road, connecting, Neely Ferry over to Fairview Road so I’m not sure how the fire department and police department would look at the speed bumps or speed tables but I defiantly think that looking at three 3-way stop signs would be a good idea. That’s all I have.
Mayor: Ok. Thank you. Anyone else?
Mr. Larson: I was going to concur with Ms. Bagwell and Ms. Burns, my children have friends on different locations on Davenport Road, sometimes it looks like people are going 70 miles and hour down that stretch and I think that the city is on the right track to calm that down and I think that resurfacing that road and taking that hump out at Hunters Woods will add a lot to the safety too. Hopefully we can move forward with that.
Mayor: Great. Anyone else? Well we have talked about from the beginning, doing some traffic calming and personally I think that stop signs are a great way of doing that. Speed humps have a whole list of problems all to themselves that sometimes are not carefully considered so we have been sort of resistant to that but I will certainly in favor of a stop sign every ten feet if that’s what it takes over there. Thank you.
Mr. Larson: Mr. Hawes, can you give us an update on the streetscape, as far as a time of when the cones are going to be gone and new lines painted and turn arrows working?
Mr. Hawes: Absolutely. The company that has been contracted with the city to redo the lane configurations, basically to change the markings, to remove the existing markings, to reseal the street and place new final markings and also to build the crosswalks that are part of the project as well. They were supposed to start last week but they got tied up in some thunderstorm activity down in Greenwood at their last job site and had to hold off. When are they going to start the new striping?
Mr. Carter: We are hoping they will put the overcoat on it this weekend
Mr. Hawes: It is looking like the end of this week and this weekend, somewhere in that time frame, and sorry for the week delay, that’s just what apparently happened.
Mayor: I think its called construction.
Mr. Hawes: Yeah. As far as the time frame from when they start until completion, it will be less than a month, which is what I understand.
Mayor: I believe we have missed a great opportunity with that project, just listening to Ms. Curtis tonight and listening to how long those cones have been out there. Perhaps we should have sold ads on those orange cones. So Ms. Curtis and associates, think of how much advertisement you would have gotten right in the middle of Main Street . Next time we tare Main Street up we will come to you. Anyone else? Last call.
NEW BUSINESS• Grant Announcements Mayor: We will now move on to New Business. Mr. Hawes you have some Grant Announcements. We are always excited about that cause that means some money.
Mr. Hawes: Yes Sir. I want to inform Mayor and Council and all residents of the City of Simpsonville of some excellent work done by some staff grant writers and in general all departments that contributed to the following grants that I am going to announce. First of all we received a $4000 Palmetto Pride Grant that will assist us in planting the medians on Main Street with great quality plants and shrubbery and flowers and so forth and that was through the Public Works Department, Joe Carter and Jay Crawford. Also the Public Works Department got a $13,605 used oil burning furnace from a South Carolina DHEC Used Oil Grant and that I believe was delivered last week and we have that on site and will allow us to heat the public works building with the oil that is dropped off from our recycling facility. So it’s really a positive green way to use that oil. Also, from the Police Department we received a $42,800 traffic enforcement grant from South Carolina Department of Justice and DOG title 5 grant for $42,800 and also a $46,849 grant for a narcotics officer for the city. Now that’s a continuing grant, we have already hired that officer and that just assists with the maintenance cost of that position. The city also procured a $80,000 competitive grant that allowed us to place utilities and infrastructure improvements at Heritage Park that will serve festivals and Amphitheater events. So the total of these grants is almost $200,000 and we are pleased to add that to the bottom line of the city competitive means.
Mayor: Fabulous. And I know that the $80,000 grant was done with the assistance of Gary Smith who coincidentally is in the audience tonight so thank you for that Gary .
Mr. Hawes: Absolutely
Mayor: So now if you will help us from the Recreation District charging us $4.5 mils on all of our citizens, we will be extremely happy with you. But thank you, seriously thank you for that and thanks to all the departments. Getting those grants is a big deal so perhaps all that money the police departments got you can put extra people over there to help Tammy’s friends, who seem to be causing problems over there on Davenport .
• Chamber Sign Ordinance Review Committee Mayor: All right next item on the agenda is something we have anxiously awaited for quite a while. We are all excited to hear about this. Rick Leonardi and Linda Curtis is going to tell us what this hard working sign ordinance task force with the Simpsonville Chamber of Commerce with the cooperation of the city, I think you will agree, have been doing to get a sign ordinance that works for all of you business folks. I will quit talking so you can tell us all about it.
Mr. Leonardi: My name is Rick Leonardi and our business address is 514 North Main Street but I am here representing the Chamber of Commerce and the respected businesses that are members of that. I would like to give you a brief summary so that everyone in the room will understand where we are coming from. Back in the fall of 2007 we saw the need to go ahead and form the task force for the purpose of looking at the existing sign ordinance in Simpsonville and making some positive recommendations for changes to that. That task force was comprised of business owners and sometimes their representatives from two dozen member businesses. The recommendation that we have in the report before you actually are in general representative of more than 300 chamber business that subscribe to the chamber each year. As a precursor to our discussion initially, the chamber a survey to all of the businesses to gauge their level of the satisfaction or relative dissatisfaction with the existing ordinance asking them specifically what things they liked and what perhaps did not like about it. Following that we had a series of task force workshops in order to gather and sort and distill that information. Subsequent to that we invited some of the representatives from the city to several of those workshops in order to provide constructive impute on how to proceed with the changes and also to gather their impute as what you thought in terms of recommendations. We do commend you for your candor and willingness to listen because that is extremely important to us as business owners. During our discussions and our subsequent formulation of recommendation, we were very careful to balance the needs of business with the social responsibility with the aesthetic integrity, public safety concerns, light pollution, traffic safety, all of which we knew would be important not only to the members of the council in the city but also the residence of Simpsonville as well. In so what follows in our report are some recommendations for some very specific changes to the ordinances that we feel will benefit the business community at large and help us avoid what Linda was talking about, with the revolving door aspect of the business, especially in the downtown revitalization district. So with that, if it will please the council, I would like to hit the highlights of what these changes would be. I apologize that your copy since it was just made, the original one should have had it highlighted, all of the actual wording that would be changed. I would be happy to leave the original one with you when I leave and the original copy in PDF form has the proposed changes in yellow highlighting. The current wording in section 11-2, talking about moveable signs, it is talking about the A-frame signs and the long and short of it is, that the section has interchangeable letters in it and in fact as a matter of practice, there are businesses within the city limits that use the A-frame signs that have the interchangeable letters on them. Seeing that they are not significantly different in size or composition as any other A-Frame size, we felt like they can be taken out of there, since the practice is out there to permit them since they are out there now. So that is the first change, there is a total of ten of these. I will try to run through them as quickly as possible. Change number two, we found was some conflicting language in the ordinance. It talks about non-conforming signs and it talks about grandfathering them in where section 11-4-A says that they shall not be modified or repaired in any way but may be maintained only by painting or refinishing the sign face or sign structure. If you go on a few paragraphs later, section 11-4-C5 says “this Section shall not prevent repairing or restoring to a safe condition any part of a sign or sign structure or normal maintenance operations on a sign or sign structure.” So it seems like the two provisions are conflicting, so I would ask perhaps that council could take a look at that and see if in fact that is the case. The third change would have to do with signs for which a permit is not required. What it is speaking of, the language that is in there now says that and I quote “provided that such signs are of a temporary nature and are constructed in such a nature that clearly indicates they are temporary.” This is talking about signs on the inside of windows of businesses and with having that language that I just read to you, that is prohibiting the type of LED signs that you can get to display on the inside of your business to show the people on the outside, if they are on the sidewalk or where ever what your specials or what you are advertising. We suggest that the language be removed and permit that. You might think it is a petty thing but the current enforcement actually is to the affect that if the person who is doing that enforcement sees a sign on the inside of a business, even if it is on a back wall of a business and it is facing out towards the front window, they will be asked to remove it or relocate it. We thought that this is overreaching, in perhaps in the interest of harmony in the business community we can remove that language. The next three change 4-A, B, C, which are on the bottom of page 3 and all of page 4, have to do with LED signage. From the business community standpoint, I know that the council is concerned about the amount of banners that are being displayed and that type of signage and you don’t want them cluttering up and in our discussions we talked about specifically that LED signage, that if it is properly regulated and if you don’t allow a whole lot of motion to it and there is a whole lot of things that you can do as a council to regulate that properly. The LED signage is the most efficient medium of advertising that small and medium size businesses have. I know that another concern may be that you don’t want the city or anything in the city to look like the Las Vegas Strip and we understand that concern as well. We will like there will not be an overwhelming proliferation of these signs if the ordinance is modified to permit them. We are suggesting in your overlay districts that you are considering that you adopt density previsions or something of that nature that would regulate the amount of signage, LED signage. It would permit it but it would regulate it depending on the area. I will cut to the end because the last item that I have on here reflects a possible income or revenue for the city. One of the big concerns with the downtown revitalization district, those businesses that are located down here right now because of the railroad track do not have visible access from the main road. They don’t have that ability that some of the other businesses that are farther out do and so in keeping with that, it might be a revenue opportunity for the city if the city were to permit these LED signs, go ahead and have the city erect a monument sign with an attractive LED two sided face on it and turn around and sell advertisements on it to the downtown businesses and it could be a revenue generator. I would be glad to share with you numbers on what that could possibly do for you at some point if you are interested in doing it. That would eliminate a lot of the banners that are currently being displayed and the problems that are inherent in displaying those banners and we will talk about that in just a minute. It is our opinion that the LED signage if properly regulated does provide a critical method of access and advertising efficiency to our businesses. The LED signs don’t fade and they don’t yellow after one or two years like the conventional letter boards that you see out there and they are not subject to creative pros by mischievous use after hours, which that does sometimes happen. They are capable of delivering multiple advertising messages without the clutter and the pollution of multiple banners, which is a concern I believe of the council right now. So enough said about those. Change 5 was talking about the banners themselves. The banner says that you can have a banner if you pay the fee for 30 days then you have to wait 60 days to put up the next one. Unfortunately that does not coincide with the business cycle for many businesses. If you are a restaurant or even in the business that I run, a credit union, if we are going to have a loan special or we are going to advertise a special rate for a car loan, we are going to go ahead and do that, well we will go ahead and do that for the 30 days, well after the 30 days, if that promotion has been successful, we will have to follow it immediately with some type of deposit promotion to pay for what we just funded. So it doesn’t make since in our business cycle to have that limitation in there. What we are suggesting is to have some sort of an annual permitting fee or remove the subsequent restriction on waiting 60 days. If your desire is to limit your number of banners, maybe you should raise the fee and make it more of a punitive thing where its not as quite as attractive to do back to back banners and the city gets more revenue in the process. We would like you to take a look at that. Change 6 has to do with the installation of permanent signs that are not directly owned by the business and right now I guess the regulation over the ordinance does not specifically address that or permit it and it really needs to because we have certain businesses that may be located at the other side of the railroad tracks, especially in the downtown revitalization district where they do not have access except to lease on someone else’s property and Linda would be a good example of that. Would you mind if she addresses that?
Ms. Curtis: We were just looking at the part of the Zoning Ordinance that prohibits off premise signage. It’s a situation where we want to look into putting multiple businesses on a multi-business sign directly across from a business on lease property, private property. It wouldn’t be using city right of way or anything. That’s one of the issues that it seems like in that part of the ordinance that part of the ordinance that there is ways to work around it. There are probably 100 more things that need to be looked at in the ordinance that did not permit to type everybody for a length of time. There are so many things that haven’t even hit on. I think what we are really looking for is that the city, whether it be the board of appeals or rather it be council or whoever it be, to put together a committee to work with our committee to come up with some changes that will benefit our businesses and business owners. Also, not be a travesty or “oh no it looks like Las Vegas .” There is a way to do it, it can be done. Personally I would like all of these grandfathered in signs, ungrandfathered in. I would much rather see more modern signs that are more attractive and aesthetically pleasing and get rid of all of the garbage. That is the part that I don’t understand. Why you would let things be grandfathered in and allow these ugly horrible 1940’s signs to exist in a town that is trying to revitalize and I would personally rather see 10,000 modern signs that are aesthetically pleasing in downtown Simpsonville then see all of the handmade signs and all the old signs. There is a huge difference and I believe that if we join together and work together, I think we can come up with a solution that will work for everybody. It is just a matter of coming together and working together with everybody. That’s all of what I had to say.
Mayor: Ok
Mr. Leonardi: I just wanted to say again, I thank the city because during this process we collaborated extensively on some of these changes prior to bringing them to you and really the last three that I got have to do with enhancements. These are what we feel would be enhancements to the ordinances. Change 7 would actually require all businesses to prominently display the address above the main doorway in the business in sufficient size that can be seen from the main thoroughfare. I believe that if I am not mistaken that the fire code requires something of that nature now but I actually suggest that it be put in the sign ordinance and maybe go a step further and specify type sizes, especially with the three-laning of Main Street now, it is going to become even more critical for people who are looking for a specific address to be able to see some sort of a land mark to say “I’m at 320 or at 450” or whatever it is, knowing that they are in this block. Along with that is the next change to insure that all of the street signs if you haven’t already ordered them in the downtown revitalizing that they are equipped with block numbers so that motorist will know at least be able to tell what block they are in and they will at least know if the address I am looking for is 125 and I just passed 100 and the next one is 200, I must be close so let me turn off and try and find the business I am looking for. We believe that will be an enhancement to traffic safety and result in a few less accidents. Change 9 is suggesting that perhaps the city consider some type lamppost style signs where the businesses can actually purchase placards in the downtown revitalization district where you got whatever businesses are located in that block. Maybe at the beginning of the block there’s a lamppost with all of the businesses that are within that block with these interchangeable placards that they can purchase to get their business advertised and then you would be able to have a very seamless way of identifying what’s in that particular block. Then lastly we are asking that a copy of sign ordinance be furnished to all potential businesses at the time that there is an application for a business license. Most of the if not all of the Chamber businesses we surveyed said they were not aware of the sign ordinances until they actually went and opened their business, long after they applied for the business license. So we feel like because in its present form, it is a little tight, that it would be a good idea to give it to them on the front end because most businesses are not concerned about their signage. It’s really one of the last things they will think about before opening their doors. It really needs to be brought to their attention before they commit. Just to kind of recap, as the Chairman of this Task Force I feel that it was important to facilitate some sort of constructive solution. We didn’t want to come in and say “we don’t like this, we don’t like this and we don’t like this”. We wanted to come up with something that would enhance the current ordinance and would hopefully provide for the concerns of everybody, of residence, of businesses, the city and traffic safety all combined in one. We did a good attempt to promote a dialog between business leaders and the city council in an effort to foster that cooperation. And then again I thank you for your efforts towards that end. The chamber board did recently review chamber membership and we did notice that it was down for 2008 and one of the primary reasons can be attributed to the lack or inability to advertise efficiently especially for these small businesses. They don’t have deep pockets and when they find out that they can’t do certain things the handwriting is already on the wall and it’s just a matter of time. We are just asking for your consideration and in whatever manner you find appropriate, if its to appoint a committee to look at it further and to study it, whether it is to go ahead and take these recommendations directly under advisement and vote on them or whatever your pleasure. We just ask you to please give us some help so we can continue to make Simpsonville a premier place to do business.
Mayor: Fantastic. Thank you. This is good work. I commend the Chamber and the Committee for doing this. A lot of great ideas in here that I think the city will embrace and this is what we have wanted for a long time, for you to tell us what you need and see if we can find some middle ground to accomplished exactly what you talked about, preserving the beauty of our town while at the same time allowing businesses to promote themselves. Also, I think that’s a great idea to put together a committee of folk, maybe some Council Members and I won’t do it here in public but afterwards I will see who is interested in doing signs and we will get some council members involved and that was also a good idea. Perhaps a representative from Board of Zoning Appeals because sometimes they handle some of those issues. I don’t believe that the planning commission needs to be involved in signage but we will think about that too. We will put some folks together and you can put your folks together and we will go to the next step, which is refining this, and get something together and see what we can do. Does anyone have any comments or objections to what I just said? All right, thank you again. Thanks to the chamber and everyone, even you Ms. Curtis.
Ms. Curtis: You made me happy again.
Mayor: That’s twice this year and we have 6 months to go. 5 months, yeah, 5 months. All right, thank you • Citywide Referendum on Sunday Alcohol Sales Mayor: Next item on the agenda, Mr. Larson, you want to talk to us about Citywide Referendum on Sunday Alcohol Sales? You have the floor.
Mr. Larson: Yes sir. I had several business owners come to me and ask me about the issue of Sunday Alcohol sales. Apparently some of our neighboring cities are putting this on their ballet. I know it is an emotional issue, pro and con against it. They were asking me what Simpsonville will need to do to address this issue and I said the easiest way is to ask people for their feedback and I can ask the city administrator to put it on the agenda for a Workshop Session and throw it out there and see how people feel about it.
Mayor: Are you suggesting that?
Mr. Larson: Well some of the concerns that people were expressing to me is that if it was approved in other locations that it would hurt Simpsonville economically as far as the impact on businesses. They could loose some of their revenue on sales over the weekends. I think there were some concerns that if there were major hotels and restaurants looking at coming into Georgia Rd and there was another development that has approved the referendum, had to put it on the ballet that it may cause a major commercial interest in the City to locate somewhere else. I am sure that people have different opinions and like I said I would just like to put it out on the table and see what kind of feedback we can get. I appreciate Ms. Hegler coming and expressing her opinion tonight.
Mayor: Ok, does anyone else have an opinion? We are very un-opinionated on such things aren’t we?
Mr. Curtis: I would like to hear more opinions out of the citizens of City of Simpsonville . I am kind of a personal crossroads on this. As I don’t believe it is a good idea for government to legislate morality, I also do not think that Simpsonville has historically been the type of place that promoted alcohol or other things of that nature. I think that Simpsonville has a character that is different from our surrounding cities and I think that we should be very concerned with preserving that. I do solicit that if you have an opinion, even if you do not want to get up and speak here tonight, if you got an opinion I would like to hear from you because if we put this on the ballet, it will be up to the citizens of Simpsonville to vote on. I am not sure if they are talking about a binding resolution or a nonbinding resolution.
Mr. Hawes: It would be a binding resolution. It’s a binding ballot measure, a binding referendum not a resolution that’s being proposed.
Mayor: Basically meaning that the choice is out of our hands, it is up to the public and whatever they decide happens.
Mr. Hawes: What I believe is being proposed here and in other cities is that a referendum be placed for the November 4 th election that will be a binding referendum based on the majority votes.
Mr. Curtis: What is our time frame for making a decision on whether or not we put that on the ballet?
Mr. Hawes: The decision for it to be placed on the ballet must be 60 days before the election. So basically second reading would have to occur 60 days before November 4 th, which is September 4th.
Mayor: Ok, Anyone else?
Ms. Bagwell: So that would give us, if I understand it, a voting session where we would have to vote basically the first vote of August and then we would have another workshop meeting and another vote in September. Is that correct?
Mr. Hawes: If City Council was to fall through and actually have the ordinance up for a vote of council. A public hearing can be scheduled before first reading or second reading. It is not required to be a public hearing. But I do believe I heard that folks would like to hear from the public and that would be a reasonable approach to schedule a public hearing, either before next meeting or before second reading. Second reading would actually have to occur at a special session, assuming it passed first reading. It would be a special session, special voting session in the workshop meeting in August in order to meet the timeframe.
Ms. Bagwell: And that does put the whole decision, rather it be yes or no, on the public? They make that final decision.
Mr. Hawes: That is correct. The referendum makes that decision. The City Council would just open it up to the public on how they would like their city to be regarding Sunday alcohol sales.
Mr. Larson: So we are basically wanting to put it on the table and see if we can bring it to the ballet box and see if we can bring it to a vote, for or against it at the election. So we have plenty of time to discuss it between now and when we have to vote on it.
Mr. Hawes: As it is a workshop, we can certainly do what you would like as regard to a public hearing or place it for first reading at the next voting meeting, which is the first meeting in August and we can put a public meeting before that. The public hearing will typically be the same meeting, it will just be before the meeting right at 6:30 before the opening of the meeting.
Mayor: Ok, anyone else? Well I have an opinion about this. I am one of those, if it ain’t broke; don’t fix it kind of guys. I don’t think it’s broke and I don’t think we have a problem here. I respectfully disagree with whoever said to you that it’s costing us restaurants and it’s costing us hotels. You are in real estate so you and Ms. Bagwell both understand that companies do site selection do demographic studies and they base it upon numbers of people and money available and disposable income and that sort of thing. They would possibly consider that sort of thing but if we got the population and we got the wealth, I think they would choose us regardless, especially since we are located so far from Woodruff Rd , which is to my understanding why Mauldin is so anxious to do this. to give them some type of competitive advantage over the folks who are going to Woodruff Road and perhaps draw them into the city. I don’t know but that is just what I heard. I know we recently went through this, serving alcohol in the amphitheater and I was in favor of that and am still in favor of that because I feel like that was an issue that we needed have to properly promote what we are trying to have. We were told by many experts that’s an element that we must have. It is a controlled environment and the city is responsible for law enforcement and the security down there and we can control what is going on down there. Once we opened it up down there and I know we are opening it up 6 days a week, if we did it for that 7 th day out there, it is just another bad thing that can happen that we don’t have any control over. I haven’t heard any uproar or groundswell support for this. There has been talk about what Mauldin is doing; I just haven’t heard it in our community. Again I agree with Mr. Curtis that we shouldn’t be legislating morality, it’s not about morality with me it goes back to my opening, if it ain’t broke why are we trying to fix it? I personally don’t believe it ain’t broke so that’s all I am going to say about that. There are 7 of us and those of you who want to put it on the ballet, if you can muster up a majority, I won’t stand in your way.
Mr. Larson: And I think that is what is supporting it. If it is great enough interest to the people that they want it on the ballet, then they will let us know that. It gives everyone the opportunity to vote the conscious one way or another. I agree with Mr. Curtis that I don’t think this government should be in the business of legislating morals. If people choose to drink alcohol that’s their personal choice. If they choose not to that’s their personal choice. I think the way our democracy runs is it should be that people should be given that chance to make that decision. I am not saying there is anything broke or not broke, I just think it’s an issue of individual choice.
Mayor: We are a republic form of democracy, which means they elect us to use good judgement.
Mr. Curtis: I do not believe it is a good idea for governments to legislate morality, however I also feel that. This is not a situation where alcohol seems to coming up again and again and it seems to me that we are trying to chisel away at the resolve at the people who stand against it. I think that a lot of times is, you get told no, you present it again and how many times do people have to say no and they have to come present it again and again. At some point it becomes our responsibility to stand up and take responsibility for.
Mayor: Last call. Anyone else? Well I suspect we will have this on the agenda at our next voting meeting. Between now and then, all of you who need impute, we should get our impute and then we will have another discussion about it and then we will vote and make the decision at that time.
Mr. Larson: I hope that we get a lot of phone calls and conversations getting peoples opinions.
Mayor: One of the problems with the ballet initiative is that often you hear that pretty quickly and forcefully from those who are propionates of what you are trying to do and sometimes you may not hear from the ones who are opposed to it. I think we all have enough discernment to go through on that and decide whether there is really an outpouring of support or not. So we will continue to do that and make decisions. Did you have something else to say Ms. Bagwell?
Ms. Bagwell: I was just going to ask if that was the case and it was going to be on the agenda at the next meeting, you will then have the Public Hearing prior to that. So not only will we receive phone calls, letters and emails, which we all welcome, we will also have the public hearing.
Mr. Hawes: We will certainly put that on the agenda.
Mayor: Ok, perfect. Thank you Mr. Larson and everyone else.
OLD BUSINESS • Kudzu Arts Guild: Use of Arts Center Mayor: Next item on the agenda is Old Business. Mr. Hawes tell us about Kudzu Arts Guild.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mayor and Council. The City of Simpsonville was approached by the Kudzu Arts Guild regarding a temporary use of the Arts Center . It’s the old Simpsonville Elementary School that is in a transitional phase right now, going through master planning right now sitting basically vacant right now. The Kudzu Arts Guild currently utilizes the city’s community building at City Park for some of their teachings and art classes and so forth. They are asking for use of one of the former classrooms located in the arts center. They indicate the understanding that the building will be ready for use in the near future and they would like to be considered as one of the organizations in residence. What I would take from that is until we have determined the master plan of that building, what form that will take and the configuration of the classroom that’s currently there will exist on completion of the implementation of that master plan. I’m taking it that they would like to take occupancy during this transitional phase. The building has hosted events as Mr. Shealy described regarding the Kruger Brother and other concerts that have taken place in the performance area in the building. But I have to say that classrooms have been underutilized. It is not air conditioned currently and that is one aspect in the upgrades that will be done for it. The Kudzu Arts Guild is requesting use of it regardless of it having air conditioning currently. They still feel like they can make use of the building in its current condition. They’d like primarily a classroom as a place to do art classes and bring people in and exhibit some of their works and also use some of the closet space for storage. The city would certainly from the administration stand point would entertain upon Councils approval some of the criteria to draw up a rental or lease contract as I certainly wouldn’t want occupancy without some stipulations of the terms and conditions in which that occupancy would occur. However Ms. Lipert is here today I believe, she may want to add to this request. I know she came and we said we would like to workshop this item so if she would like to come up, I could certainly call upon her to clarify anything that I didn’t explain.
Mayor: Ok, thank you for coming Ms. Lipert.
Ms. Lipert: Thank you for entertaining our motion or request. Like Mr. Hawes said we would like to hold our meetings there. During various times of the year we would like to hold workshops that are available to the public. At our meetings, we generally have an educational program that is also available to the public. We can work a little bit harder at publicizing who’s going to be at which meeting to try to draw in some of the public. I guess our question is what is your vision of the building long term?
Mayor: I guess that depends on who you talk to and what day of the week it is. We’ve talk about that since we got that building and one of the things we talked about Mr. Hawes, very early on was having community meeting rooms and having groups like yourself to come and meet there but not giving anyone exclusive use of any room. Because if you start down that road, if we give you a room the rotary is going to want a room and dog club is going to want a room and we don’t have that many rooms. If we had some rooms that can be used for public meetings then I don’t see any reason that you wouldn’t be able to do that. But to establish a permanent residence and hang up all your stuff on the walls and store things there, I’m not sure I’d be crazy about that. That was one of the things we talked about early on and we talked about if we let anyone use it that we develop a management plan so we know what our rules would be. Then Mr. Hawes would be in the easy position of saying page 3 says we can or can’t do that. But we are here to talk to you about that cause I don’t even think we know what we are going to do with that. Let me ask you a couple questions that I have on my mind. Insurance, do you have any insurance that would cover liability or any personal injury or damage while you were there. Do you folks have your own insurance?
Ms. Lipert: No. We are a very small group, we run as a nonprofit group and we don’t generally carry liability insurance. All of our activities have been under the understanding that everyone would cover their own issues if there was a problem.
Mayor: Ok, I’m sure our attorney will want to talk about that at some point. This is not a smart remark question, what is in it for us? What can you do for Simpsonville and not just your members?
Ms. Lipert: As I said in our last meeting, if we have a home that we could rely on and devote our energies on other aspects. In Travelers Rest, there was a day of Art in the Park, where businesses coordinated with the Travelers Rest Arts Mission and they presented different opportunities with children mainly, to experience different kinds of art in that one day. That is something that is possible. We can do art exhibition, if that is something you would be interested in. Basically we can enhance the idea that Simpsonville is friendly to the arts, it’s an arts community. The results wouldn’t be financially tangible but it will be a raise in prestige.
Mayor: You’ve done some of that haven’t you? A few years ago at the Cotton Mill when you had an arts display that was very successful wasn’t it?
Ms. Lipert: Yes. That was something else we could do together. The problem was trying to decide where to have something like that. We had it at the Cotton Mill that was prior to the construction of the lofts and condominiums and when he started construction it became unusable for that type of thing. We did have it at the old school one-year, the problem that year, it wasn’t quite as successful but the location was changed two weeks prior to it. So there was a little bit of confusion as to how to find the building and things like that. On the whole, everyone who participated that year was very pleased that year with it. So that is something we can do again and make it an annual event.
Mayor: Do you work with or cooperate with the Arts Foundation to do art?
Ms. Lipert: Yes. They had requested we paint the backdrop for the show so we all got together and bought all the materials and Wade and the Public Works Department hung the hardware that we needed to make it work and we produced a very nice backdrop. I know Wade is interested in some sidepieces to compliment it so that it would help cover more of the stage and that is something that we are willing to do. So we have worked with the Arts Foundation quite a bit.
Mayor: How much stuff do you have that you want to store? Are we talking about a truckload or two easels and a canvas?
Ms. Lipert: We have 5 easels and 10 display boards and a fold up tent.
Mayor: I don’t expect and inventory but do you have a closet full, a room full, a gymnasium full or what?
Ms. Lipert: It might be difficult to put in a closet because some of the tent poles are 10 ft long and the easels are fairly large. So a little more than a closet and less than a room.
Mayor: Hey, you answered the question. Anyone else have anything?
Mr. Bridges: Is there anything that you would be doing that would interrupt or interfere with the project that is going on?
Mr. Hawes: The way that the agreement would be made is that they wouldn’t be allowed to interfere with anything that City Council decided to do with the building and basically if something was in conflict with something they were doing, they would be subject to moving or whatever so we didn’t have that type of conflict. You certainly can’t bring somebody in that could be interfering with the wills or the wishes of council.
Mayor: So our lease agreement would be a month to month agreement?
Mr. Hawes: it could be. The parameters have not been determined. I would have to sit down with the city attorney and look at what the issues are including insurance and specifics of occupancy vs. a rental on a week to week, month to month basis differences or permanent, vs. temporary or semi-permanent occupancy instead of coming in at a certain time and maybe you will allow them to store their things in there but you don’t allow them to have occupancy other than at certain times. Those are the things that will have to be reviewed.
Mayor: Anyone else?
Mr. Curtis: What can you tell me about the hazards involved with the type of work you’re referring to? For example, oil based paints, do you need proper ventilation?
Ms. Lipert: No
Mr. Curtis: I heard something about work with stained glass.
Ms. Lipert: We did have one artist that worked with stained glass but he has moved and right now we don’t have anyone who works with that. Most of the people who do any type of glass work or jewelry making that is all done at there home so the facility will only be used mainly for meetings. If we did do paintings it would only be water color or acrylic and regular oil paints. It would be such a small amount that there wouldn’t be any type of hazards or ventilation issues.
Mr. Larson: How many days a week would it be used? Or how many hours a week?
Ms. Lipert: Well it could be anywhere from 1 day a week to 3 or 4 days a week, depending on what the agreement is and what we are allowed to do. We had a space that we didn’t have to call and check if it’s available then we would probably be doing more activities.
Mayor: Ok, anyone else? Well what I would like to recommend Mr. Hawes is that if you and Mr. Holmes would put together some type of agreement that would work and satisfy all of the questions that all of us had and make sure that once we start doing whatever we start doing over there that you would understand that you would be asked possibly relocate or maybe just move. In other words this is a temporary arrangement.
Ms. Lipert: Right, depending on how the use requirements shape up.
Mayor: Yes. So what I am saying is the three of you get together and you talk about what you would really like to have and you talk about what we could properly let them have and come back to us and if it is something that we think will work then we will move forward. If not, possibly we can tweak it or pitch you a tent over there.
Ms. Lipert: We would like to do anything we can for the City of Simpsonville , in return for you providing a space for us to use.
Mayor: We would like that. One more thing, you mentioned there isn’t any air conditioning over there. Isn’t there window units? Do those work?
Mr. Hawes: I do not believe any of the window units are functioning.
Mayor: That may be something you need to look into.
Ms. Lipert: It was to our understanding that air conditioning would be coming in the next several months.
Mr. Hawes: Actually when air conditioning is going in, you’re going out. I hate to say that but the building is not ducted or anything. So you couldn’t occupy it while air conditioning is going in. I’m not saying you are going out for good but I am saying while the ductwork is being put in you don’t want to be in that room.
Ms. Lipert: It’s major construction.
Mr. Hawes: Correct.
Ms. Lipert: We have a member who would like to say a couple of things. Ms. Jewel Dillard
Ms. Dillard: My name is Jewel Dillard. I live at 146 Dillard Road , Simpsonville. I have been teaching for about ten years. I taught at Holy Cross Church , I taught privately at my home, I’ve taught at a Christian School but mostly I teach at Mauldin Senior Center . I have kept saying “Why can’t we do something in Simpsonville?” I thought since we got the Arts Cultural Center we would be able to. So how long is it going to take? I teach one day a week and usually it’s every other month. I will take a month off and then I go back teaching.
Mayor: To answer you question, I don’t know. We just now know that you want to teach.
Ms. Dillard: I have been teaching 10 years
Mayor: You should have called us 9 years ago but it’s good to know that. That answers partly the question I had of what you can do for us. You referred to that earlier but now we have a face and a commitment.
Ms. Dillard: I have been waiting for this a long time.
Mayor: I am not being reluctant, I am just being careful. You aren’t the first people that we have been down this road with so we want to make sure we have all of the T’s crossed and the I’s dotted.
Ms. Dillard: We will address all of these issues when we meet with Mr. Hawes.
Mayor: Sounds great.
Mr. Hawes: We will look at all of the parameters and move on from there.
Mayor: Thank you so much for coming.
• Speed Hump and Stop sign Requests • Davenport Road Petition • Brentwood Way Petition Mayor: Mr. Hawes, you are still up. You are going from Kudzu to Speed Humps.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mr. Mayor and Council. The City of Simpsonville has received in the past month two requests for traffic calming measures, speed humps and stop signs. The first request was from Brentwood Way . A number of neighbors circulated a petition to install a traffic calming devices/speed humps on Brentwood Way . Basically over 100 signatures were collected in an unofficial petition but it certainly does indicate a good deal of interests from the community there. I wanted to first of all let you know of the petition, letting council know of that and indicate to you all that city staff would gladly take a look at this and analyze the appropriateness of any number of traffic calming measures that may be appropriate there on Brentwood or a section of Brentwood or any other drive in that area that may be wanting or needing of that treatment in order to facilitate a safe movement of traffic in that neighborhood. The city’s policy in the past in reviewing these petition has been for the police chief and the director of public works and myself to get together and identify exactly what the concerns are and the physical conditions of the area are and if there are any warrants or hardships based on sight distances, physical characteristics and really try to determine what the treatment is and then perhaps come back to city council and identify what we have found for your review at that time. On a similar note we have received a petition from Davenport Road citizens and I think that was referenced a couple minutes ago, requesting a stop sign as a specific traffic control measure and even specific locations which are indicated on a map that companied that petition. What City Council has in front of them is the front page of the petitions and the map for the Davenport Road . Rather than give you a copy of the actual petition which is many numbers of pages, you can actually review the signed petition at your leisure and I will place those in the Council office. The Davenport Road petition does specify locations suggested by the petitioners for traffic calming treatments in the form of 3-way stop signs at Davenport . The city has certainly been very cognizant and involved in ways to most safely design that road in the reengineering of Davenport . Among the ways the city has reviewed for traffic calming is lane width change, also the addition of possible bike lanes which can serve to calm traffic.
Mayor: How does that serve to calm traffic?
Mr. Hawes: It serves to calm traffic in the sense that if a bike is on the road people will slow down. There will be more bikes and pedestrian activity on the road, which typically cause vehicles to slow down. Particularly if they are not on a sidewalk or bike lane per se. also a bike lane is a striped lane with specific markings which identify bicycles and the stripe itself is used to create a perception of a narrowing of a lane in which you drive rather than no striped shoulder.
Mayor: Human speed bumps, is that what you’re saying?
Mr. Hawes: Well, no absolutely not. It’s actually behavioral impedances, is what it’s called. The factors being the stripe existing and the fact that there might be or is a bicycle or pedestrian on that road even though we don’t encourage pedestrians in bike way, they tend to use them. Those are passive traffic calming measures. The more active traffic calming measures are certainly stop signs, speed humps, speed tables, chicanes, traffic circles, traffic islands and any number of treatments may be appropriate for different situations. In our analysis of Davenport Road , the clear approach really indicates stop signs will be the most affective, at least for the first attempt. If the stop signs increase enforcement measures by police and still did not do what is necessary to make that road safe then they will need to look at other measures such as speed humps, speed tables, chicanes and so forth. Basically what the city is intending to and I wanted to make City Council aware of it is we received these petitions and we will take them and analyze them on their merits and on the specific characteristics of the road that they pertain to and then come back to council with our recommendation. Mayor: Thank you. Just for clarification, the one for, well I see Dorian Drive and Ment Drive at least on this first sheet, you said you had more sheets that we don’t have with signatures, some of them say no speed humps but are they asking for them on all of the streets over there or just on the Brentwood Drive.
Mr. Hawes: My understanding is, while it’s not clear, which is why it’s not an official petition because it isn’t a legal petition, it doesn’t have the things that are necessary to make it a legal petition and there is quite a bit of ambiguity in the petition but my understanding is that it is for Brentwood Way and was indicated to the people who signed it that it was for Brentwood Way, however you are correct that some wrote no speed bumps. I think what they are saying is that they would like for the traffic to be calm but they don’t want speed bumps. I believe they signed it wanting something to be done but they do not want speed bumps so part of our analysis is that we need to get to the bottom of what the petition is asking for and how many people on the roads will be affected and in the neighborhood that is affected are actually for the specific treatment that is being requested in the petition.
Mayor: Well it says at the top “Request to the City of Simpsonville to install a traffic calming device, speed humps on the noted street” but in the introduction you said it was for Brentwood Way so that’s why I was asking for clarification. So how many more pages of that do you have?
Mr. Hawes: There are over 100 signatures on at least 10 pages.
Mayor: Well that is the question we need to have answered before we talk about it. Mr. Curtis is going to answer that question because I think he has some knowledge.
Mr. Curtis: Mr. Mayor and Council, I have received a copy of this petition. I went through it and identified signatures that were two residences at the same property and I’ve identified where people have signed it as a landlord and they own multiple homes in the area. It was presented to me and based on what I have looked at, it appears that the request for the traffic calming on Brentwood Way as it is a horseshoe and has long runs. The cross streets that are referenced are relatively short and would not have the same type of speed problems that Brentwood way has. Based on the review that I have done, it either meets or is extremely close to meeting the 75% criteria of people on Brentwood Way has signed it, which is an enormous effort when you think about getting people to sign a petition in a subdivision. There were people who signed and specifically said they do not want speed bumps or traffic calming at all but they were far outweighed by the people who did want it. There were a few people who would not express an opinion. I, living on that street, was one of those people. I didn’t feel like it was appropriate for me to express an opinion because of my position here. That’s what I know and I do believe that it is reasonable for us to peruse what is appropriate and I don’t know if it is remembered or not but during our last council meeting I actually asked the City Administrator to look into that, at that point based on my analysis of the petition that I had received at that time, whether council members had received a copy of the petition or not.
Mayor: It is Brentwood Way , right?
Mr. Curtis: Yes, it is for Brentwood Way .
Mayor: Ok, anyone else. So you are moving forward with the Police Chief and whom ever to analyze the situation and you are going to bring us a report back.
Mr. Curtis: Yes that is the City’s typical procedure on petitions.
Mayor: Ok so we really don’t need to do anymore tonight? We will talk about it when we need to talk about it. Ms. Bagwell needs to talk about it.
Ms. Bagwell: Just one question. How long are we looking at? What time frame are we looking at? I’m sorry I am more focused on Davenport but I’m sure that Brentwood has the same question. What kind of time frames are we looking at before we start seeing some of those traffic calming procedures?
Mr. Hawes: Well, certainly City Council will have to act on it. Before we can get back to you, there has to be some analysis of the certain circumstances, the warrants and criteria that I mention. Particularly the police department will run a speed check to indicate the 85ths percentile to see if there is actually a speeding problem because if there isn’t a speeding problem as indicated by the analysis, there isn’t a need to go any further. So that is step one. The second step is the physically analysis to see if there is any other issues on the street and that runs through police and pubic works department. The third step would involve the city’s planning director and some of the considerations and the warrants on the traffic calming devices that may or may not be indicated.
Ms. Bagwell: Would it be reasonable to ask that we have that information by the next meeting.
Mr. Hawes: You may certainly ask that. I will do everything to align the forces to have that for City Council at the next meeting.
Ms. Bagwell: Thank you.
Mr. Larson: Is there any regulations as to how many traffic calming devices that you can have on a certain stretch of road.
Mr. Hawes: Absolutely.
Mr. Larson: Is that depending on if it’s a city, county or state road?
Mr. Hawes: Most of this is governed by the MUTCD. If you go outside of that you invite insurance issues. In other words, if you build roads that are not in compliance with guidelines for MUTCD, which indicates how high a stop sign needs to be, where it needs to be, the distance between speed humps, the size and location of traffic tables, speed tables and chicanes. All of those are indicated through the MUTCD and they have standards and standards for the application so you don’t want to go outside those standards because the city could be liable as far as traffic accidents. In example, if you put a speed hump too close to an intersection and something adverse happens because of someone slamming on their breaks. You go by the analysis, the engineering and the studies across the country and the world, a lot of traffic calming originated in Europe . If you go to Denmark , Holland , Germany , that’s where you are seeing traffic calming devices such as chicanes. You will see in the Northeast US and down at Hilton Head, you will see traffic circles and traffic islands. They tried, true and tested but there specifications are also tried, true and tested and you want to make sure they are designed within those specifications. To answer your question, there are parameters that you don’t want to go outside of.
Mr. Larson: Another quick question. Can Public Works make our own stop signs?
Mr. Hawes: Yes.
Mr. Larson: So they are made in house?
Mr. Hawes: Yes, they conform to SCDOT standards.
Mr. Larson: So it’s not something we have to go out an order, a whole bunch of stop signs from an outside source?
Mr. Hawes: No.
Mayor: Ok, let me go off subject a little bit. I just thought of it. I want to compliment Chief Reece and possibly you and possible Joe Carter and everybody who had anything to do with the 4-way stop at college and Church Street over here. As someone who uses that intersection everyday, I can personally attest that it is a much safer intersection than it was before. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve almost been hit by having to ease up and look if someone is coming and that’s one of the best examples of a 4-way stop sign.
Mr. Hawes: It’s a poster child for a 4-way stop necessity because you have viewing angle issues, you also had equal amount of traffic in both directions.
Mayor: Absolutely. You have Baptist on one corner and Episcopalians on the other. That’s dangerous in itself. I’m sorry to go off subject. You will be coming back to us the next meeting with that, right?
Mr. Hawes: Yes. Anyone else? All right, great. Thank you.
EXECTUIVE SESSION Mayor: Next item on the agenda is that we have a need for an executive session to discuss contractual matter relating to Public Works. I will entertain a motion in that regard.
Ms. Sanders: I move that we move into an executive session.
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Sanders. Do I hear a second?
Mr. Curtis: Second.
Mayor: Thank you Mr. Curtis. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed no. Aye’s have it, it’s unanimous. We are in recess to go into executive session. Thank you all for coming.
ADJOURNMENT Came out of Executive session at 8:30.p.m. Mayor reported that no action was taken. Ms. Sanders made a motion to adjourn the meeting and Mr. Curtis seconds the motion to adjourn the meeting.
Respectfully Submitted,
Cathy Bridgeman Interim City Clerk |
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| 118 N E Main Street, Simpsonville, SC 29681 |
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